The New "HD" Tilesets

[Jes]

Hey, folks!

So we've had the new HD/Fancy-mapped tileset update for a little bit now. I wanted to get players' thoughts on it!

I know there are a few weird things (like gate textures, but that does have a fix in the next hak udpate if we keep this). But I mostly want to hear from everyone whether you like the new fancy-map/HD update or if you think it should be optional and removed from the actual haks.

It was a big, pretty update, but I wanna hear from you guys whether it should stay!

[ZoltanTheRed]

We could probably afford to extract out all of the fancy stuff to optional overrides for the sake of the mobile players.

[Jes]

I'm pretty sure those are just the mtr files and I can extract those to override on their own if people want them.

[Cyristus]

Personally, I love it

A few weird things on low graphic settings (the grid to the entrance of Udos Drox'un are still showing for me on my laptop) but overall I think this is a step in the right direction.

[Jes]

The grid also has a fix coming! I found the piece that was causing it. Think I got all but one piece, so you'll still see it in a few spots, but not the whole thing anymore.

[ZoltanTheRed]

I'm pretty sure those are just the mtr files and I can extract those to override on their own if people want them.

Sweet!

[Lord-Jyssev]

So this post came about because of my own issues with the update. All in all, I'm really struggling with the tileset updates. Tilesets and placeables that I relied on in the past as a builder just aren't consistent anymore and I feel like I can't/shouldn't use them. I'm feeling as though it limits me more than it enables me. But this is all coming from someone who is very focused on environments and who happened to love how the base game looks for the most part.


Landscapes are now too shiny

As a consequence of this update, tilesets now look as though everything has been rained on. Huge swaths of grass now have lighting hotspots. If the goal was "up" the lighting information, it has been maxed into overdrive. Some examples below with old on the left and new on the right. In the case of the beach, sand now looks dirty and patches of rubble now look like they're slapped on where before they were well-integrated and seamless. In the snow areas, snow now ranges anywhere from bluish grey to blinding white and rarely matches the snowdrifts that are baked into the tileset.






Placeables now no longer match

We're an old server, we've pulled a lot of different placeable appearances from a lot of different places. It's a mixed bag whether or not placeables match the very tilesets they were ripped from or even each other! These placeable desks were once the same exact color and could be used interchangeably in a room without issue. Overall, the textures have become more gritty and less smooth because of the increased lighting intensity and it's especially evident on objects with low-detail maps like these desks. There used to be cohesion between textures and tilesets. Now, there are quite a few tilesets now where grasses no longer match, wood tones no longer matches, textures are out of place from one another. (Some of this stuff is really hard to show through a still; it's way more evident with movement because of how the light shifts)




Rework may be required

As evidenced with the Positive Energy Plane, cave grids/door textures, and the mobile issues, this update is introducing issues that didn't exist before; stuff that may require rework and additional dev time that I feel is unnecessary. Creating an added requirement for mobile players doesn't feel like a good design decision; any barrier to entry is an unnecessary one.





I feel that this should have been an Opt-In experience rather than an Opt-Out experience. My suggestion would be that we remove the HDness and provide it instead as an optional override. It doesn't add anything mechanical to the server; rather it's just a nice-to-have "HD"ification for those who want it. That's my airing of grievances, but I welcome the community perspective on this!

(edited for formatting)

[ZoltanTheRed]

Some of those areas look shinier in those screenshots than they do when I go in game. Of course, I think it being opt in is the better approach. Bit of feedback: Can you move some of the images to spoiler tags? They're quite massive.

[Jes]

For the record, this didn't only come about because of Jyssev's opinions about it. I genuinely want to gather player thoughts on the update in one place. I've had overwhelmingly positive feedback about the update as a whole and I think the decision of whether we keep it or not should be with the players. I've personally not had any issues myself and I don't think the minor texture issues are that bad. Just my opinion!

But yes, compiling player feedback on their own experience while playing is what I'm looking for personally!

[Cyristus]

So this post came about because of my own issues with the update. All in all, I'm really struggling with the tileset updates. Tilesets and placeables that I relied on in the past as a builder just aren't consistent anymore and I feel like I can't/shouldn't use them. I'm feeling as though it limits me more than it enables me. But this is all coming from someone who is very focused on environments and who happened to love how the base game looks for the most part.


Landscapes are now too shiny

As a consequence of this update, tilesets now look as though everything has been rained on. Huge swaths of grass now have lighting hotspots. If the goal was "up" the lighting information, it has been maxed into overdrive. Some examples below with old on the left and new on the right. In the case of the beach, sand now looks dirty and patches of rubble now look like they're slapped on where before they were well-integrated and seamless. In the snow areas, snow now ranges anywhere from bluish grey to blinding white and rarely matches the snowdrifts that are baked into the tileset.


Placeables now no longer match

We're an old server, we've pulled a lot of different placeable appearances from a lot of different places. It's a mixed bag whether or not placeables match the very tilesets they were ripped from or even each other! These placeable desks were once the same exact color and could be used interchangeably in a room without issue. Overall, the textures have become more gritty and less smooth because of the increased lighting intensity and it's especially evident on objects with low-detail maps like these desks. There used to be cohesion between textures and tilesets. Now, there are quite a few tilesets now where grasses no longer match, wood tones no longer matches, textures are out of place from one another. (Some of this stuff is really hard to show through a still; it's way more evident with movement because of how the light shifts)



Rework may be required

As evidenced with the Positive Energy Plane, cave grids/door textures, and the mobile issues, this update is introducing issues that didn't exist before; stuff that may require rework and additional dev time that I feel is unnecessary. Creating an added requirement for mobile players doesn't feel like a good design decision; any barrier to entry is an unnecessary one.



I feel that this should have been an Opt-In experience rather than an Opt-Out experience. My suggestion would be that we remove the HDness and provide it instead as an optional override. It doesn't add anything mechanical to the server; rather it's just a nice-to-have "HD"ification for those who want it. That's my airing of grievances, but I welcome the community perspective on this!

(edited for formatting)

I had this problem too and I noticed that there's an option in the settings called "used enhanced textures" (or something like that, I'll verify when I get back on later) which fixed that issue of ultra shiney-ness on my side.

Idk if that'll help you like it did for me, but it's worth a try!

[Puresoul]

I don't have much brain power right now but I agree with what Lord-Jyssev posted.

[The Gentleman]

Lord-Jyssev, what overrides are you using?

[Jes]

I was able to make mine look more like what Jyssev posted by unchecking "Use Enhanced Lighting" in my graphics options, so I would recommend that you check that box if you don't have it checked! Someone pointed that option out to me because I was confused why it looked so different from what I see. xD

[walnutboy]

I'll be honest and say I haven't really noticed the difference. In part this is down to not looking (playing zoomed out and not hunched over my screen unless needing to see something) but also because I tone down all my graphics settings as I find it easier on my eyes. The latter has been a thing anyway since first paying nwn way back when and the infamous shadows and shiny water graphics havok with my then, dated computer.

So I haven't looked for the nice and shiny stuff, I just log in to rp... however, the one negative thing I was forced to endure (twice now due to having nwn on my tablet as well) was the 4gb download. Granted my Internet isn't 'slow' but it isn't blazing either and when you go to log in only to find it MUST download before you can play... it was rather mood killing. For anyone with a less than steller connection it's a big ask if all they are wanting to do is log in and play. Current players I think found it frustrating but anyone coming on for the first time could certainly find it off putting. It's like buying that new game for your console but then having to sit through an hours update because the 'new' game doesn't match the fixed version.

The one question I ended up wondering was, 'was this download really necessary for my enjoyment of Amia?'... my answer, personally not. However that isn't to say some wouldn't mind it but then by such reasoning it might have been better as something optional. At the end of the day it was a graphical update I get little benefit from myself, if it had been a hak update to enhance the playability or the longevity of the server... then I'm all for it.

At the end of the day this isn't the most recent game nor the most highly polished and I don't think people mind that.

[Lord-Jyssev]

Lord-Jyssev, what overrides are you using?

No overrides! (Specifically made sure to go through and disable any Workshop content or other overrides)

I was able to make mine look more like what Jyssev posted by unchecking "Use Enhanced Lighting" in my graphics options, so I would recommend that you check that box if you don't have it checked! Someone pointed that option out to me because I was confused why it looked so different from what I see. xD

Definitely have that checked. Lighting's absolutely horrid without it on. I'm still standing by the fact that stuff is just too shiny and inconsistent with other tilesets!